Karen M. Drabenstott
Associate Professor
School of Information
University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1092 USA
Voice: (734) 763-3581
Fax: (734) 764-2475
karen.drabenstott@umich.edu
New topic -- "Applying Skills and Knowledge from Librarianship"
We have come to the end of our discussion on "Electronic Information Publishing." Please join with me in thanking Bob Watson for suggesting this topic, making a splendid introduction, recharging the discussion at low moments of discussion, and building to a surge of conversation at the end. Thanks again Bob for your efforts.
Lee Liming is host for our next topic -- "Applying Skills and Knowledge from Librarianship." Lee is principal Web engineer at nearby UMI (formerly University Microfilms, International), in Ann Arbor, Michigan. In addition to serving as UMI's Webmaster, he was most recently a member of the development team that implemented the Web interface for UMI's ProQuest Direct information system. Previously, Lee served as a senior staff member at the University of Michigan School of Information and was involved in a number of CRISTAL-ED pilot projects and curriculum planning committees, as well as campus-wide information technology initiatives. Lee holds a BSE in computer engineering from the University of Michigan.
Please welcome Lee Liming as guest editor of "Applying Skills and Knowledge from Librarianship" and join in the discussion.
Lee Liming
Principal Web Engineer
UMI
Throughout several CRISTAL-ED discussions, we've heard one claim repeatedly cited, sometimes challenged, but seldom defended. This claim is that the skills and knowledge that are central to librarianship are also of value to new professional fields and career tracks. Examples of these tracks include: Management Information Systems, Computer Interface Design, Digital Publishing, and Information System Architecture. These new fields are believed to be growing as a result of innovations in technology that facilitate new types of information systems and products, from A&I databases to multimedia entertainment. This has resulted in a number of schools broadening their curricula to include new fields, rather than being satisfied with retaining the interest of their traditional audiences.
A common argument is that while the demand for traditional library services could be reduced by the proliferation of commercial information and media services, these new services will require use of the same skills and knowledge in their creation and operation as those used in traditional libraries.
This begs an important question. Where are the builders of these new services really getting their expertise? Are we being successful at marketing librarianship as a useful skill set in these new fields, or is the expertise coming from somewhere else? Or, are the needs not being met due to ignorance? Or, are the needs overrated? In short, is this strategy working?
It may be that a quick reality check can be performed right here on the CRISTAL-ED LISTSERV. I'd like to give it a try.
Rather than discussing this issue theoretically, let's use this forum as a means of collecting anecdotal evidence. This evidence (if it materializes) can then be used to support the arguments we've all probably made at one point or another regarding the continuing usefulness of the profession. (A single example often carries more weight than a dozen arguments.) If we fail to collect any evidence, there could be a number of reasons, which can be explored when we wake up in two weeks.
Call to Action
We need people who are using library-related skills and competencies for jobs outside libraries to speak up! If you've discovered a new place to apply these skills (particularly in a "new" field, such as multimedia, information systems, interface design, etc.), describe it!
This is not a time to be modest. We're looking for stories that demonstrate the value of the foundations of "library" education, so it's all right to show off.
For those of you working in libraries or library schools, think back on your former colleagues and/or students. Those of you with recent library degrees: what about your fellow graduates? Are any of them now in "non-traditional" information-intensive jobs, using their skills for new purposes? If so, tell us their stories. Or, ask them to write something and post it for them. Better still, get them to join the list and relate their experiences in person.
It is my hope that the summarization of these postings will illuminate some interesting trends, and maybe even inspire some new thoughts on how to market information-related skills and (dare I say it?) degree programs.
Patrice Clemson
PITT Data Administration
Ph.D student
University of Pittsburgh
SIS Department of Library and Information Sciences
pac1@lis.pitt.edu
The current topic, applying skills and knowledge from librarianship, is one that I can relate to on a personal level. Since I received my MLS 22 years ago, I have practiced librarianship. This may not sound very remarkable, except that I have spent only eight years of that time practicing these skills with bibliographic information within library walls. The rest of the time has been spent applying information management and data base design principles to software development and information systems. Most recently I have completed the circle by becoming a data administrator for my institution, the University of Pittsburgh. In this role I model information and provide advice and assistance to those seeking this information. I often describe this work as the opposite of library cataloging and classification: catalogers provide an abstract or conceptual model of a physical entity (the bibliographic "work") and we in data administration provide a physical model of an abstract set of entity relationships.
In the coming days I hope to be able to share with you some of my findings relative to this topic. I have been assembling a list of the skills required for data base design and data administration with their respective librarian skills/knowledge.
Bob Watson
Executive Director
Franklin Park Public Library District
10311 Grand Avenue
Franklin Park, IL 60131
Voice: (847) 455-6016
bwatson@linc.lib.il.us
My deep thanks to Lee Liming for hosting this topic.
An immediate problem arises in defining the "skills and knowledge" of librarianship. They vary enormously, from traditional "bibliographic" skills to webmaster, from children's services to special subject reference.
So what are these skills?
This gives me an excuse to launch a theory that I've been "diddling" with for some time but only crystalized out after reading Goodbye Descartes: The End of Logic and the Search for a New Ecology of the Mind, by the logician (and mathematician) Keith J. Devlin (Wiley, 1997). It is a popular treatment of a developing recognition of the limits of logic, and hence computers, in defining "thought."
I am asking for comment on what I propose.
The key issue is one of "context." Devlin demonstrates that context is endlessly reflexive, which is to say that a given context depends upon a previous context, which in turn depends on another previous context and so forth. Computers (and other hardware) only work if context is defined, which is why the use of "expert systems" remains limited to narrow fields with constrained choices. I propose to view "knowledge" as "contextualized information" and to define "librarianship" as the process of storing and transmitting the "physical embodiments" of said knowledge. This intergrades, to some degree, with publishing (of course), but once an item has been created it must (generally) go through a process of: decontextualization --> transmission --> recontextualization. It is also related to any other form of "information transmission," which can be very simple indeed if context is narrowly defined.
By "decontextualization" I mean creating a method of making the information available without having to address it as a whole. One may describe it in a minimized fashion, which we generally do through controlled vocabularies (and to which computers can contribute mightily). Even information which is stored in full text is "decontextualized" since the words have, literally, no meaning (being but patterns on a storage device) prior to being searched. Subject headings and shelf numbers are other modes of decontextualization. For that matter, so are titles (especially misleading ones).
By "transmission" I mean the ability to send the decontextualized information in space and/or time. A simple book card catalog does so in time, a simple electrical circuit serving a thermostat does so almost exclusively in space. A book catalog, or the computer systems we all use today, do both.
By "recontextualization" I mean making the information usable for the end-user, which is to say applying the correct context (if such is necessary). This is "getting the right book for the right person."
As a broad statement, one might say that the more "context" dependent, the more humans are necessarily involved at some point.
Anyway, regarding what we traditionally have called "librarianship," one can see that "decontextualization" is the traditional role of cataloging departments, "transmission" the role of the many different folk who maintained card catalogs, and "recontextualization" the role of the various service departments. All were essential and all still are (allowing that we can yet define ever more ways to define context in ways that make computers useful).
The years subsequent to Dewey showed our profession concentrating on the various "decontextualization" tasks, making the library usable to the person who was able to "recontextualize" without aid.
Librarians over the years, beginning with Greene, and including Shera, Ranganathan, Shores, and Swan have argued for the need to improve training for those who "recontextualize" knowledge and make it available to the needful end user. I've done so myself in four or five articles.
The "transmission" step got short shrift in an era of paper, but now its importance is equally critical. "Transmission" has become a highly technical skill in itself.
All three are important in making knowledge available to end users. I have argued elsewhere that the "sub-professions" within librarianship are different enough to require separate types of professional training (and I stand by this), but I must confess that the various folks involved in the three phase process I outline frequently need to use each other's tools in order to have a perspective on the process as a whole.
(A note for purists: I recognize that I'm using the term "knowledge" rather sloppily since "knowledge" is an artifact of the mind and not "of the book." However, there must be some reckoning with the knowledge by the human actors at the "decontextualization" and "recontextualization" stages if the "library process" is to work.)
And thus we have a model for describing the "skills and knowledge" of librarianship that acknowledges the differences (and relationships) of our sub-professions, making it rather easier to address the issue Lee poses for us.
Lee Liming
Principal Web Engineer
UMI
We're off to an interesting start! Patrice Clemson has boldly stepped forward by indicating her experience with "applying information management and data base design principles to software development and information systems". That's exactly the sort of response I was hoping we'd see. (Patrice has told me offline that she's at a particularly busy point in her schedule, but I hope she'll have a chance to followup with more details soon!)
Bob Watson's discussion of the role of "context" in librarianship has provided us with a new context for further discussion. Much of the work we do at UMI, for example, can be fit into the model of "decontextualization" (abstracting, indexing, assigning keywords from a controlled vocabulary, etc.), "transmission" (I prefer to think of this in terms of providing access, rather than physically moving or maintaining something), and "recontextualization" (the challenging part for mass information providers like us: our systems and user interfaces can do some -- but far from all -- of this work). I'll do my best to expand on this some in a later posting next week.
However, in keeping with the informal, anecdotal goal of this discussion, I'd like to encourage participants to respond in any way that seems appropriate to your situation. It's really not a terribly weighty question. "What have you done with your information skills beyond the traditional roles of libraries?"
The remainder of my postings this week will be coming to you from the floor of the Netscape Developer's Conference in San Jose, California. While there, I'll be watching for examples of the influence of librarianship on the latest developments in the Internet/WWW industry, and I'll do my best to pass them along to you. Despite the high concentration of geekiness sure to be found at "DevCon", I expect to find quite a few cases where new developments are being shaped by classic lessons in information management.
(For example, have any of you been shaking your head at the latest craze over "push technology" on the Internet? I'll bet many of you are experiencing the same, "been there, done that, didn't work" feeling that I am. It should be very interesting to see what's happening now that significant investments are being made in this relatively old idea.)
Meanwhile, I know that there are plenty of people out there in the ".com" domains reading this discussion. I can only assume that your membership indicates an interest in the future of librarianship, and that you *must* have interesting stories to tell about using "information" skills in corporate environments. Has anyone out there been working on a corporate Intranet? How about Management Information Systems or more specialized decision support systems? Collaboration technologies? Don't be shy!
Lee Liming
Principal Web Engineer
UMI
After graduating with an MILS from the University of Michigan in 1993, I decided to take the entrepreneurial path and joined Argus Associates, an Ann Arbor startup venture founded by Louis Rosenfeld (also a SILS graduate) and Joseph Janes (of Internet Public Library fame).
In those early days, we offered Internet training sessions to librarians and educators. We also designed and built gopher sites, and when Mosaic took the world by storm, we began designing and building Web sites.
We soon realized that it didn't make sense for us (librarians) to perform all of the work involved in Web site development. Fortunately, we were able to partner with a graphic design firm and a technical firm. Within this group, Argus has been able to concentrate on doing what we do best: applying many of the skills of librarianship to the networked information environment.
Over the past few years, we have focused on this area we call information architecture for the Web. We design the organization, labeling, navigation, and indexing systems for complex Web sites and intranets. In order to do so, we must work closely with clients to understand the mission and vision for the site and the intended audiences and content. In this capacity, we have worked with a diverse group of clients including Barron's magazine, Borders Books & Music, Chrysler, Dow Chemical, the Library of Michigan, the SIGGRAPH conferences, and UMI.
Despite these successes, the field of information architecture (from the perspective of librarianship) is not widely recognized. A very small percentage of Web and intranet development projects involve people in our field. For this reason, we have also taken on the role of educator/evangelist. We write the Web Architect column in Web Review magazine and are working on a book for O'Reilly on this topic.
We also speak frequently at professional conferences such as Internet World, Web Design, and Comdex on the topics of information architecture and information retrieval on the Web. In the past 6-9 months, we have seen a significant change among audience members in their awareness of the importance of information architecture. A year ago they complained about heavy graphics and slow servers. Now they complain about poor organization schemes and the difficult of finding information in large Web and intranet sites.
We believe that the (real and perceived) need for information architecture services will grow dramatically over the coming years and that programs like the School of Information are uniquely positioned to produce the professionals to meet that need.
For more on information architecture, please read our Web Architect column.
Ned Fielden
San Francisco State University
Reference/Instruction
J.Paul Leonard Library
1600 Holloway Ave.
San Francisco, CA 94132-4030
Voice: (415) 338-1454
fielden@sfsu.edu
I am aware of a fair range of LIS graduates who work in either very specialized library settings (medical, legal, "think-tank" environments) or places where LIS degrees would not be expected. These can range from software firms (locally Innovative Interfaces hires a fair number of folks to work on various aspects of designing, installing and customizing their OPAC) Database firms, as well as those in publishing fields (including newspapers), government archives and museums. For many of these positions, an MLIS is a highly appropriate degree, and while the work required may have a highly technical nature, LIS graduates are often valued for a small handful of special qualities they possess. These include:
There are other intangibles to be sure, such as the perhaps innate ability for many of us in the profession to be very fast learners, able to adapt quickly to new wrinkles in technology as they develop. We have to, since we respond to the needs of our community, whatever it may be. I also have to think that the broad, human-based perspective that is part of all good LIS programs is also a tremendous asset in the workplace, be it library or not.
Thanks for a provocative discussion.
Lee Liming
Principal Web Engineer
UMI
I heard a couple of interesting statements this morning at the keynote address at the Netscape Developer's Conference. In the video presentation before Marc Andreeson's keynote, the voiceover said:
"Information, people -- what's the connection? You!"
Just before that:
"The best way to predict the future is to build it."
A strong theme here is that developers are building the future interactions between information and people.
This isn't the first time we've heard this, of course. My thought at the time was, "Who are 'we'?" How are information professionals being included in the equation? How many of the people here at DevCon have the expertise required to intelligently and effectively build that crucial link between information and people?
So far, I have seen some amazing applications, and heard many interesting strategies for team management that include the information professional as a member of that team. The trick for developers is how to incorporate that input into the development of the system, and how much interaction ought there to be?
So how about it? How many of you, the CRISTAL-ED membership, have experienced being a part of a cutting-edge information system design team, and what were some of your observations regarding the contribution you were able to make to the team? I'd love to hear some stories about how someone with a "librarianship" background saved a team of developers from themselves in the process of designing a system.
william Arthur Liebi
Academic librarian
Stadt- und Universitaetsbibliothek Bern
CH-3000 Bern 7 Switzerland
Voice: +41 +31 320 32 259
Fax: +41 +31 320 32 99
liebi@stub.unibe.ch
Bob Watson confronted us with his context approach for a theory of librarianship including its sub-fields.
Librarians, archivists and other information specialists are operating in different information intensive environments. Therefore, it would be interesting to apply context analysis beyond the professional activity of librarians to the professional activities of the different categories of information professionals.
The goal would be to establish a "context theory" of the whole professional life within library and information science.
Lee Liming looks for team management strategies that include the information professional as a member of that team. He asked also how the crucial link between information and people can be effectively built: "How are information professionals being included in the equation?"
Here are some hints to this issue:
Grasp the goals of the organization. Learn to think in the interest of the team, the organization, and the stakeholders.
Foster the dialogue between the management and the information professional. So you get the signals of the management at an early stage and you can include them in your planning and evaluation.
Settle the information services near strategic positions within your organization.
Strengthen the relations between you and your users. Join regularly the project-related meetings of your main clients. Consider the communication habits of your customers. Inform through writing articles in your house journal.
Propagate electronic channels (E-mail, mailing lists, newsgroups, preprint-servers, E-journals). Develop an intranet according to the needs of the users.
Besides consulting, offer end-user services and training for routine processes and simple verifications; execute searches on demand.
Concentrate on value-added services; "sell" these services as value-added products.
Estimate costs and benefits. Regarding information resources reflect "access versus ownership." Decide whether to "make or buy" products: Where you cannot reach the necessary "critical mass" yourself, cooperate with allies and partners, even on an international level.
Establish quality control. Get feedback on informal ways. Define quality criteria from the perspective of the clients and evaluate your performances.
Finally: Improve your communicational, analytical, and organizational capacities. Extend your knowledge and skills. Remain curious, flexible. Be initiative.
John Weise
jweise@umich.edu
Thanks, Lee, for alerting me of this discussion and inviting me to participate.
Since passing through U-M School of Information and Library Studies a few years ago, I've been working for the University of Michigan Information Technology Division. I'm leading the development of image (visual images rather than text page images) database systems in conjunction with Digital Library Production Services. I'm definitely in a non-traditional role. There is no doubt that I'm applying heavily what I learned about information organization to the development of new image access systems. I'm certain that I'm applying fundamental librarianship skills to my work. However, having never worked in a library in any sort of traditional way, I'm sure that there are large gaps in my understanding of the way libraries have traditionally functioned and served. The advanced understanding of information organization and access methods that I acquired through my master's education at SI(LS) has perhaps been most useful. This has little if anything to do with current technology.
I also have a BFA in graphic design and photography. The fundamentals of this education also serve me very well in developing interfaces for information access systems.
I'm not a traditional librarian, nor a traditional artist. To some degree I fit Peter's mold of Web architect. However, I think my focus is a bit narrower. It is easy for me to imagine info systems development projects where I would prefer to hire both a librarian with expertise specific to the area, and a graphic designer for interface design than to attempt to do the work myself. I guess what I have is the ability to communicate fluently with librarians, artists, and programmers in order to guide a systems development project, and that is very valuable these days.
I got my librarianship skills from SI(LS), but it was my sister, Heidi Weise, who enlightened me to what skills are associated with librarianship and made me realize that they are important to me. And I think it was a friend of hers that sparked her interest. Maybe it takes a grass roots movement to point out that librarianship skills are valuable to people in a broad range of professions. It is hard to dispute that the skills are broadly valuable, and I think library specific terminology can get in the way of sharing the message.
When I entered U-M in 1985 to study computer science, I never would have guessed I'd end up with art and library degrees. Yet as I look back, it all seems logical. This is what I wanted to do then, I just didn't know it in any formal sense.
P.S.: I invite folks to visit the Museum Educational Site Licensing database of 9,000 museum images that I've been working on and to provide feedback through the survey. (UM uniqname and password required.)
Victor Rosenberg
Associate Professor
School of Information
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1092
Voice: (734) 764-1493
Fax: (734) 764-2475
victorr@umich.edu
I have always believed that training in librarianship or in information technology was valuable for anyone who wanted to start a business. The competitive edge in business is often the ability to understand and use information effectively. Clearly, there are some skills that are more likely to be taught in a business school, like finance, accounting, and management, but the skills taught in SI are equally valuable.
I went from the humanities to computer science to library science and then on to found and run a computer software company. I was well served by my library education which, even in the late sixties, was very concerned with information technology. In fact, those days with my graduate education almost entirely paid for by NSF grants, were very much like the current environment in the field.
We often tend to forget that there is an entire industry just surrounding the library field. This industry includes the library automation vendors, book publishers, and digital information providers. These companies employ many librarians who go on to become managers, and some even go on to start businesses.
The trend of librarians going off the reservation to jobs in the broader industry has been with us for a long time and is bound to accelerate as the field becomes increasingly part of our information centered society.
April Bohannan
Assistant Professor
School of Library and Information Studies
Texas Woman's University
bohannan@gte.net
William Liebi wrote:
"Bob Watson confronted us with his context approach for a theory of librarianship including its sub-fields....
"The goal would be to establish a 'context theory' of the whole professional life within library and information science."
Have you read Apostle & Raymond's Librarianship and the Information Paradigm? Seems to me they get in to that a bit.
Louis Rosenfeld
Argus Associates, Inc.
109 Catherine Street
Ann Arbor, MI 48104
Voice: (734) 913-0010
Fax: (734) 213-8082
lou@argus-inc.com
I recently was invited to participate in this discussion by Lee Liming, and I appreciate the invite; I've enjoyed it quite a bit. I won't add much about what I've been up to; it'd just be a rehash of Peter Morville's posting.
So I guess I truly have nothing original to contribute, as Ned Fielden hit the nail on the head in his posting regarding LIS education. Putting my own spin on it, I'd suggest that LIS programs concentrate on these three goals:
The first two are basically traditional meat-and-potatoes reference and cataloging. I hope it's clear to LIS program deans and faculty that these basic skills are more important than ever, as demand for these skills outside libraries is mushrooming. That's certainly been our experience at Argus. Happily, these areas are even more exciting to study than ever before, as information technologies provide so many more hands-on "real life" opportunities to conduct reference and classify than ever before.
The last goal states that LIS graduates should be able to work with the other professionals we increasingly encounter in these new work settings: programmers, user interface designers, graphic designers, marketers, engineers, and so on. However, our graduates do not need to be able to do the work these other professionals do, simply understand the challenges and principles of these fields. I am concerned that some LIS programs may be going too far toward expanding the scope of our discipline, at the risk of watering down our skills in core areas of reference and classification.
As far as marketing ourselves, I almost feel that we are too late; it's almost a moot point. I get the sense that other professionals are already getting to the point where:
The result will be a new recognition of what our field has to offer, although the cost in forcing them to come to us (as opposed to our being better salespeople for LIS) could be lower salary ranges for entry-level LIS graduates. But perhaps the laws of supply and demand might negate our poor marketing skills.
Shirley Richardson
Catalog Librarian
Angelo State University
San Angelo, Texas 76909
Voice: (915) 942-2221
Fax: (915) 942-2198
Shirley.Richardson@mailserv.angelo.edu
I completely agree (with Lou Rosenfeld's comments). LS schools should require all LS students to have a thorough, basic-level knowledge of both reference and cataloging skills, since both sets of skills are extremely important. Also, when students leave grad school for their first library jobs, it would be great if libraries would encourage entry-level librarians to acquire plenty of cross-training in both areas (and others, if time permits.) Most libraries give catalogers assigned time in reference, but rarely assign reference librarians to assist in cataloging. Certainly no librarian, in whatever area of librarianship you'd care to mention, could be hurt by having a basic understanding of the principles/rules of cataloging that make up the online databases. Likewise, catalogers cannot help being benefited by trying to help patrons use the catalog that the catalog department is creating, as well as other databases.
Let's hope that LS/LIS education will reincorporate cataloging and classification into the required curriculum and balance out the course study of would-be catalogers with a solid grounding in the basics of reference work.
Lee Liming
Principal Web Engineer
UMI
Again, I'm happy to be able to forward a report from a colleague in the broader information professions. His note was written rather hastily, and he requested anonymity due to the timing of his job transition, so I'm paraphrasing his report, and vouching for his character. ;-)
I'm a recent (last five years) graduate of the University of Michigan School of Information, and I'll hopefully be moving to a new job in several weeks. I'll be the system administrator/community developer/trainer/all-around-techie for a commercial, topic-focused Web site. It's one of the sites launched by InterZine, based in Boca Raton, Florida. It's a start-up, so I'll be trading pay and security for equity.
I know that my skills in information access and organization will have a big impact on our site, and on the company's other sites. The current staff is comprised of journalists, most with moderate "AOL-like" net experience. I'll also be playing a large role in getting exposure for the site via "traditional" net methods; usenet, search engines, etc. These things seem trivial to me but the staff seem almost awed by "library boy's" skills.
William Arthur Liebi
Academic librarian
Stadt- und Universitaetsbibliothek Bern
CH-3000 Bern 7 Switzerland
Voice: +41 +31 320 32 259
Fax: +41 +31 320 32 99
liebi@stub.unibe.ch
Lee Liming wanted us to check environments in which librarians can appropriately deploy their strengths. Interestingly enough, we end discussing the essentials of our field.
It seems that we are still searching a name for the whole discipline. In my view, it is a matter of opinion which denomination or label we choose, whether:
Our choice reveals our attitude towards the field; I discern three principal directions: "traditionalists," "progressists," and "modernists" (if I am permitted to use these appellations; each of them has no demeaning significance).
Traditionalists
Joanne Twining Williams follows Joseph Z. Nitecki who declares:
"I consider librarianship as a discipline which includes all issues related to recorded knowledge and information."
Here, LS includes IS implicitly.
Progressists
They extend LI adding IS; some of them permute the two names. In this view, LS and IS are sub-disciplines of one encompassing field; Nitecki himself tentatively uses the word "Metalibrary Information Science" for it.
Modernists
They speak only of IS, dropping the name of LS. In this concept, IS includes LS implicitly. Nitecki comments:
"It is fashionable [...] to consider information science as the primary subject of the discipline, relegating library science to one of its subdivisions."
The author maintains that this view disregards the "conceptual and historical development of the field."
Why then this drift of denominations from LS to IS?
For Louis Rosenfeld, "marketing ourselves" is of primordial importance. He proposes to concentrate on the core areas of our discipline and to improve our abilities to cooperate in interdisciplinary teams.
It has been said in later postings to CRISTAL-ED that the name of LS points to only one information intensive environment. Using this word, the activities of information professionals seem narrowly bound to the library. If information professionals want to enter into other information intensive environments, the library-bound name could represent a hindrance.
Progressists as well as modernists seem to think that an appropriately chosen name for our discipline may support marketing ourselves.
Anthony Debons
debons@lis.pitt.edu
Hi Guys: I see that librarianship is now becoming responsive to what has been said a long time ago by a number of people-including Jesse Shera.
Ben Speller
North Carolina Central University
School of Library and Information Sciences
Durham, NC USA
speller@nccu.edu
When I came through library school we were told that a good cataloger had to have a solid grounding in reference resources. So I would not be surprised to think that short of lacking people skills, a cataloger could easily be a high performance reference librarian.
Louis Rosenfeld
Argus Associates, Inc.
109 Catherine Street
Ann Arbor, MI 48104
Voice: (734) 913-0010
Fax: (734) 213-8082
lou@argus-inc.com
For accuracy's sake, I didn't make this point. I just made the observation that need to market ourselves is possibly now moot. As a profession, we've avoided marketing ourselves, and now those from other professions are instead seeking us out.
Shirley Richardson
Catalog Librarian
Angelo State University
San Angelo, Texas 76909
Voice: (915) 942-2221
Fax: (915) 942-2198
Shirley.Richardson@mailserv.angelo.edu
However, there is a distinct difference in the skills necessary to be a good cataloger and the skills necessary to be a good reference librarian (beyond the obvious "people skills.") While most catalogers probably still receive considerable class time in reference training, the reverse is no longer true. A good cataloger is not necessarily going to be a great reference librarian, or vice versa, because there are separate skills necessary to each area which are developed and honed by constant practice. These skills are learnable, of course, but keeping them up requires frequent opportunities for practice. The main problem is that while a cataloger is "practicing" reference skills, his/her cataloging is piling up back in tech services. :-)
Ben Speller
North Carolina Central University
School of Library and Information Sciences
Durham, NC USA
speller@nccu.edu
I would be afraid to generalize in this discussion because of different situations. In a large research library where I assume lots of original cataloging and classification and revision of copy cataloging are taking place, I agree with the generalization. However in a small- or medium-sized library with very little original cataloging taking place and all professional librarians including catalogers working the reference desk, the generalization might be different.
Now if we move this to a course taken in library school, I might agree. This too depends on whether or not the cataloger has had more than the general reference course and the reference librarian has paid serious attention to the cataloging course if they happen to take one. When I came through school every student had to take cataloging, general reference, advance reference in the social sciences, humanities, and science/technology. Of course collection development was also required; I think that the course was called selection of materials.
I put in the people skills because all of us know librarians who are more knowledgeable than the current reference staffs but they do not like to communicate on a constant basis and face the constantly changing situations at the reference desk. In the old days, they ended up during the original cataloging and classification and helping behind the scene with really serious reference problems.
Lee Liming
Principal Web Engineer
UMI
We only have a couple of days left in this discussion, and I don't want to sound peevish, but as the discussion leader I feel I have a duty to remind the membership that the discussion topic is still "Applying Skills and Knowledge from Librarianship". Let's try to stay on track, and restrict our responses to real-life cases where librarianship skills have been applied to tasks outside traditional libraries.
We've had a number of great stories related so far, but I'm a little disappointed that more haven't been brought forward. Given the enormous effort that's been made at some of the leading library schools to broaden their curricula, and given Lou Rosenfeld's statement earlier (which he backed up with his own example) that other professions have begun looking for people with skills in librarianship, it shouldn't be this hard to find examples.
So here's our final call! Let's resist the temptation to state what ought to be the case, and explore what's really happening. Are we setting false hopes for "new school" graduates? Or are there really jobs for them in business and industry? The only way to decide this is to look at what's happening around us, and relate what we see.
If you've been holding back because you feel the answer is too obvious to be stated, now's the time to register that answer, and give a reason or two to back it up. If it's that obvious, it shouldn't be hard to explain.
Barbara Kobritz
BKobritz@AppliedTheory.com
I graduated from library school in August of 1995. While I was in school I became fascinated by two things -- the Internet and training. I was delighted and amazed that, right at the time of my graduation, a position opened up for an Internet trainer with a highly respected Internet Service Provider in my area and I got the job. We do several different kinds of training:
When I am assigned to do something like develop an employee orientation it requires me to interview people for information, as well as reading through company records to learn the history; synthesize people's opinions into a coherent program of what new employees need to know; keep the end-user forefront in my mind; turn the information into a presentation and then maintain that information for currency so that it is always ready for delivery. Sounds like library work to me!
Some of my other assignments have been more "librarianish" in content. My favorite development project was the "Internet Search Tools & Strategies" course. I spend the first part of the class on what indexing means, what the engines are actually doing, why you get different results with different engines, NLP and so on. It calls on just about everything I learned in school.
The program I graduated from (Syracuse) requires a management course and a policy course and I apply the concepts all the time to this position - things like project management, stakeholder management, communication flow...all these things are crucial in the workplace.
One final note: The job I have was my first choice among all the jobs I applied for. My second choice was at the local public TV station, managing an educational outreach program (getting schools to subscribe to their online content and working with them to get it incorporated into the curriculum, as well as some content development). I read the job posting and then I sent them a letter in which I literally said, "You need a librarian!" and went on to make a few points about the skills that modern librarians are trained in. It didn't get me a job offer, but it got me an interview. When applying for jobs which are outside our traditional arena we have to do a little selling, but if you explain to the potential employer what you're about, sometimes they get it.
One other thing: There's another side to this coin. My background is in small business management. I started 3 businesses before I abandoned that track to go back to school. Some libraries where I sent resumes just tossed them in the wastebasket -- "no library experience." Other people were very excited about what they saw on my resume in terms of project management; results orientation and customer focus. Potential library employers who thought that 20 years of experience in those arenas weren't "library experience" were short-sighted. While the question we're posing in this discussion is how can we apply traditional library skills to other jobs, let's keep in mind that traditional "not library" skills can be crucial to our success as libraries. I'm glad for the profession when these management experiences are seen as "library skills."
Thanks for the discussion. I love this list.
Okay, in response to the call for examples of the actual application of LIS skills in non-library environments, I can offer an example.
A University of South Carolina CLIS grad has been employed by Triple A to travel, visit hotels and restaurants, and write reports which will appear in AAA guides.
This LIS grad will use her sorting and classification skills to interpret what she finds in ways which will help travelers make decisions about travel plans.
Formerly the domain of fussy, nit-picking snob wanna-bes, the cataloging of travel tips is now in the hands of a bright and energetic woman who will put her LIS skills to work in the private sector.
April Bohannan
bohannan@gte.net
I'll admit I've been skimming through some of these messages rather quickly. Perhaps because of the content of some, but mostly because I'm teaching a course online this semester and my mailbox is always full. Round about way of saying that what I HAVEN'T seen and find curious is anything about how people FIND these jobs. Where are they advertised? By what names? How did you convince future employers that "library school" prepared you for what they need? Maybe I missed it or maybe I'm the only one in the dark but it seems to me these are questions that need to be answered.
Lee Liming
Principal Web Engineer
UMI
Here are some of the ways in which I see skills and knowledge from librarianship being used in my current organization, UMI. (For those of you not familiar with UMI, take a look.
The most obvious example, I think, is the ongoing development and application of the UMI Controlled Vocabulary of Subject Terms in our information database products (CD-ROM and online). As anyone trained in librarianship knows, a controlled vocabulary is critical to selecting values for subject terms, even in systems that also support fulltext searching. UMI's editorial staff continuously updates our vocabulary, and we now make it available for hypertext browsing on the Web. (If you've never browsed a CV in a hypertext system, give it a shot. It's an interesting experience!)
A less-obvious example is UMI's R&D toward statistical and linguistic algorithms for automatically generating high-quality document abstracts. Our Advanced Information Technology Group (AITG) has been working in this area for some time now, and has made considerable progress toward integrating their results with our information feeds, so that we can dramatically improve the speed at which abstracts are added to periodical and newspaper articles in our products. Though techniques like these are seldom used in libraries, the underlying linguistics and statistical methods applied to information should be at least familiar to most ILS degree holders.
Similarly, we are developing techniques for automatically linking proper nouns and key concepts in documents to summary information regarding those items, as produced by editors or as made available by our existing information systems. Again, information professionals are needed to evaluate the usefulness of these features and to further narrow the items for which linking makes sense, as well as to inform the editorial process.
UMI hires graduates of "library schools" regularly, particularly in our marketing and editorial teams. Projects such as auto-abstracting and concept links, however, are demonstrating a need for professionals with closer ties to the management and use of information in our product development teams as well. While we currently hire professional software developers and have them seek out relevant papers written by researchers in ILS-related fields, we may eventually find it necessary to hire people in those fields ourselves, for the purpose of extending knowledge in directions that lead to increased value in commercial information products.
Lee Liming
Principal Web Engineer
UMI
I'd like to begin this summary by thanking those who participated in the discussion. It's been an interesting two weeks, with diverse and interesting input, and it was great to hear about the many experiences and ideas that were related during the period, both on- and offline. Thank you!
I've counted a total of 10 responses which related actual cases of skills and knowledge from librarianship being applied in non-library settings. Some related more than one case. I view these as falling into five categories: database management and information system building (Clemson, Fielden, Weise, Liming); information service design (Morville, Fielden, Rosenfeld, Liming, Curran); archives and museums (Fielden); software development (Rosenberg); training and education (Kobritz).
In addition to these examples, we heard from a number of people who added general insights to the discussion. Bob Watson and William Arthur Liebi spoke regarding the "context approach" to librarianship and related fields. Liebi added a list of ways in which an information professional could be useful in addressing the information needs of an information-intensive organization. Lou Rosenfeld identified some key elements of an information professional's skills.
Rosenfeld commented, "As far as marketing ourselves, I almost feel that we are too late; it's almost a moot point." By this I believe he meant that other professionals already have an appreciation and awareness of librarianship skills, and thus information professionals may be finding it easier to fit into non-library organizations. Liebi followed this with a discussion of the "naming issue" as it relates to the marketing of librarianship, and Ben Speller and Shirley Richardson added several related points.
At the beginning of this discussion, I proposed that we could try "a quick reality check," by asking members of the CRISTAL-ED list to bring forth examples of people who were successfully applying their librarianship fields outside libraries. Ten positive examples over two weeks from a membership of thousands are clearly not enough to yield an obvious answer. The stories we heard are all excellent examples that indicate that something is happening, at least to a few determined degree holders. Whether this is a trend or not remains to be seen.
Throughout the discussion, I found it particularly interesting that more members of the list seemed interested in discussing how and why librarianship ought to be useful outside libraries, than were willing to bring forward cases where this was actually being demonstrated. If there's one personal lesson I take from this discussion, it will be that finding the relevance of librarianship to new human endeavors can only be accomplished through action, not by reason alone. We must continue to educate professionals in the principles of information organization, management, access, and use, and encourage them to apply this knowledge in new environments. Then, we must watch to see when and how these applications are successful. This constant self-evaluation will reveal how and why librarianship is useful outside libraries. I hope that library schools are doing this already as part of their [deep breath here] market research.
Again, thank you to those who participated in this discussion. I hope that those who've been following along have found it as interesting and valuable as I have!
Ben Speller
NCCU SLIS
Durham, NC USA
speller@nccu.edu
Ned Fielden
San Francisco State University
Reference/Instruction
J.Paul Leonard Library
1600 Holloway Ave.
San Francisco, CA 94132-4030
Voice: (415) 338-1454
fielden@sfsu.edu
The request for actual circumstances in non-traditional settings brings to mind two individuals I know, whose stories may be of interest.
One ended up working for a company that contracted w/ the US Dept of Agriculture to organize their gopher site (remember them?) back in 1993. Like many such projects, administrators were quick to seize on advantages (we can put all our information out there where anyone can find it -- maybe we can even save costs on printing!) until some of the 'details' began to emerge as issues -- how will this all be organized? what will be the right set of intuitive menu choices to lead someone to the arena of their need?
She worked on these problems in particular, and a good deal more, which involved communicating w/ various people in the USDA to determine just exactly what kinds of information they wanted disseminated, how frequently bulletins were to be updated, etc.
Her own skills were fairly technical -- good knowledge of programming and UNIX, but courses in LIS on cataloging (particularly issues in subject classification) were invaluable.
Another graduate ended up at a young software development company working on a medical software package targeted for HMOs and other fairly large medical facilities that needed to keep track of lots of data. Her involvement was not at the programming level, but at the interface, where decisions about how it would look, how to make the choices as intuitive as possible, and where clarity and simplicity were all important.
In addition she was one of the valued test guinea pigs when a new version surfaced, and she would test drive the package around, making notes on where it was murky, confusing or (gasp) dysfunctional.
For both these folks, two main qualities were important -- good "human" sensitivities that allowed them to act as advocates for the users. This involves some thought about how non-technical people go about looking for things, how to organize massive amounts of information so that choices are clear and not overwhelming.
And in both cases, computer technical skills were of a very high order.
These technical skills are of a different sort than developed by many computer science departments however, and I suspect that the "human focus" of LIS training has a lot to do w/ the value of these two people in their work.
You may join the discussion and look over the list of past and future topics.
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